The letter----
To whom it may concern
I am writing to eBay to express my dismay over your recent decision to remove certain categories under the metaphysical heading. While I understand some few sub-par sellers may have caused charge back issues, this is certainly not the norm among sellers in the Metaphysical categories. Most have exemplary feedback and many happy and satisfied repeat customers. In fact, the feedback of metaphysical sellers as a whole is probably far better than sellers of electronics and other like merchandise.
There has also been the statement made that many sellers are dealing in 'intangible' items. While we understand this poses an issue with eBay/Paypal dealing with refunds and charge backs when nothing is mailed, selling an intangible item has long been against eBay policy anyway. Many sellers know this and DO mail items to their customers. Those that do not should be educated in eBay rules to cease this practice which has long been against policy.
What is alarming now is that the blanket term of 'intangilbe item' is being used to ban actual ITEMS. Jewelry, crystals, stones and other items with ADDED energy work or yes, what is commonly called 'spells', are being targeted. What concerns me is your purposed selective enforcement of what you(eBay) terms 'intangible'. It seems you only have targeted those sellers who offer items of a certain occult or esoteric nature, ie. pagan beliefs and witchcraft. Magic, Spells, items of a paranormal or psychic nature, etc....
Sellers have also been told (via EBay's Facebook) that the prices of their tangible items can not reflect any significantly added value put on by any intangible addition. What a nightmare for eBay to enforce since many items listed every day are priced subjectively by the sellers in many categories such as art, antiques, jewelry, vintage items and collectibles. The market determines the price and people will pay the price or they won't. Again this seems like only sellers of certain occult natured items are being singled out for selective enforcement if the Facebook statement is true.
EBay has not disallowed Feng Shui items or 'New Age' items like Crystals used in healing and crystal work, both of which have 'intangible' properties that are believed in by MANY millions and millions around the world and add to their value in the eyes of many. You have not banned rosaries, crucifixes or religious medals, all of which have perceived 'intangible' abilities and energies associated with them. You have not banned items like Aromatherapy products which people use to gain certain 'intangible' benefits from. Magnetic therapy jewelry. Radionic devices and the entire category of natural and homeopathic remedies are items that people must subjectively get 'intangible' and unverifiable benefits from. The list of items with 'intangible' benefits goes on and on. I ask HOW are these any different than spells, blessings, magic and energy work placed upon items? How do these items differ in dealing with any Resolution Center disputes?
I am saddened and deeply concerned that eBay's new policy may appear to some as a form of religious or ideological discrimination against occult and esoteric metaphysical beliefs. Something that I'm sure eBay does not want to imply.
Various Pagan, Neo-pagan, Alternative and Wiccan beliefs are ages old and actually a rapidly growing segment of our world population. Not everyone subscribes to the 'Big Three' religions, four if you include Buddhism.
in fact according to religioustolerance.org:
"A second important statistic is the rate of growth of the Wiccan community. "In May, 1998, the Chicago Tribune reported that, though difficult to quantify due to lack of formal organization, neo-paganism is the fastest-growing religion in North America with the Internet being the prime means of proselytizing." 1 Ms. Curott estimates a doubling in size every 18 months. This growth rate seems quite high, but appears to have some credibility in the Wiccan community. The ARIS survey of the American adult population indicates a growth in the Wiccan community of 17 fold between 1990 and 2001 - the highest of any faith group monitored. This would indicate a doubling in numbers of adherents about ever 30 months. 2 Maria Alupoaicei, who co-authored the book "Generation Hex" claims that "The numbers of [Wiccan] adherents are doubling every 30 months." We suspect that she derived her estimate from this essay. She notes that there are over 700,000 websites for Wiccans on the Internet.
If the latter growth rate is accurate and if it continues, then Wicca would be the third largest religious group in the U.S. by about 2012, behind Christianity and Judaism, and ahead of Islam."
If this is all a misunderstanding, I apologize but there have been many mixed messages coming from eBay Customer Service reps who tell sellers who call in that not only are readings of all types and direct cast spells(non mailed item) being prohibited, but that ANY item, TANGIBLE ITEM, that mentions a spell or magic anywhere in the title or listing is now prohibited. Sellers are told that the use of certain WORDS are banned and listings will be scanned for these certain keywords like magic, prayer, blessing, psychic, spell, haunted, etc... I can only imagine what a nightmare this will become if that is true, with listings being pulled just for using a certain keyword picked up by a computer bot.
I ask that eBay consider carefully how targeting certain beliefs and practices may look to the world as a whole-a world where millions of people hold alternative and differing cultural beliefs. I think sometimes certain corporate departments can be short sighted in making changes whose widespread ramifications are not well thought out.
I am only ONE of HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of persons, both buyers and sellers of items in the Metaphysical Categories that are asking these same questions now.
Sincerely,
A concerned eBay member
I am only ONE of HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of persons, both buyers and sellers of items in the Metaphysical Categories that are asking these same questions now.
Sincerely,
A concerned eBay member
Hopefully everybody saw the Facebook post jinnandtonics sent in:
From ebay FB - just now!
· · 29 minutes ago
llerinformation/news/fallupdat
eBay
Hi Lisa, as part of our latest Seller Release we announced the closing of some categories. Every year we restructure, close, and edit our categories to improve theshopping experience onsite. The Metaphysical category is going to be closed
at the end of the month, and items from that category will not be allowed to be listed onsite. More details can be found here: http://pages.ebay.com/se
e2012/categoryupdates.html?
ssPageName=
categoryupdatesABPost ~terri
The first half of the letter should be removed. You are picking a fight with Ebay about specific item categories and semantics that they have certainly already discussed in house. You don't want to argue points like "intangible items" and "feeback scores". The idea here should be to express that we feel Ebay is discriminating against our religions. That they are intolerant of beliefs outside their own. Discrimination is a touchy subject and gets a lot of pub. Look at the recent Chick-fil-a debacle, for example. The talking points need to be "discrimination" and "intolerant". They are denying us the right to employ ourselves due to our religious views!
ReplyDeleteIm not sure about that, I kinda like the whole letter as it is.. What she states is right, we do have better feedback than many other sellers, that should mean something, if their whole site is based on feedback scores....
ReplyDeleteI was trying to suggest that eBay's selective enforcement of something deemed 'intangible' in the metaphysical sense is being aimed at only a certain category of belief, ie. Pagan, Wiccan, Witchcraft, Occult, Esoteric, Magick, etc...The US Supreme Court has held that a person can establish a claim of selective enforcement if the selection was deliberately based upon a standard such as race, religion, or other arbitrary classification. Of course this pertains to government agencies but it is an argument that has merit. Ebay is a corporation yes, but it still must not violate the rights of a certain class of people. By using the argument of a ban on the 'intangible' factor being selectively enforced it implies eBay IS violating the rights of a certain belief group. I was just putting it in a nice way. Some of the email addresses I have which I intend to use, are for a bevy of eBay's legal council.
ReplyDeleteEbay does not want bad press and a claim of religious discrimination is serious. Rather than threaten at this point, a gentle shove is what I was aiming for.
I do want to say, I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE to write a letter too. The more variations and opinions the better. Once we start the mass emailing to eBay I want literally HUNDREDS of messages in each eBay inbox. We will have several hundred, probably close to or over a thousand eBay email addresses to use. All dept heads and senior employees.
ReplyDeleteI also would like those with fax machines to flood the fax numbers. And of course ongoing phone calls.I truly believe we can face eBay down and get them to re-address this and at least allow the sale of items with spells and such connected that are mailed. Spell casters and psychics can mail anything as long as they have that all important delivery confirmation # to upload.
The ONLY way we can succeed though is if MANY of us do this. We need our friends, relatives and customers to join in too.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you understand. By singling out those that do not mail an actual item, you are losing probably more than 50% of those that you wish to jump on board. What you're essentially doing is saying, "Ebay, you're right. This is wrong. You should ban all of this. Oh, except for what I sell." You say you want a movement, you want everyone to join in. In order for that to happen, you need the support of ALL sellers in the metaphysical category, not just those that sell what you sell. I, for one, do not physically mail an item to my buyers. I perform services like tarot readings and spell. I send pictures and descriptions to my buyers. I offer a very valuable service and my customer base speaks for that. However, you are saying in your mock letter to Ebay, that my services SHOULD be banned. Not yours, however, because you mail the customer a ring or trinket. Am I understanding that correctly? In any event, if this is the path you have chosen, you obviously will not have support from me or other sellers like me (and there are many). I think you need to rethink your strategy. I will check back in, but for now it appears it will be best for me to try other strategies. If I do have a breakthrough somewhere, what is my motivation to include you and sellers like you since you have turned your back on sellers like me?
ReplyDeleteGwen, I have an associate I work with and whose eBay store I help oversee and she offers only direct cast spells though she had recently agreed to adapt to the 'item' rule.
DeleteMy life partner offers 75% direct cast spells too though at my insistence he added about using an item to mail months ago.
I'm not against you or other direct Spell Casters at all-I have been one of you!
But I also knew I was breaking a long standing rule so I went to offering an item along with the spell-a bead, a stone, a seashell and I did this a couple of years ago. I do know that it violates a long standing eBay rule to not mail anything. We HAVE been violating it. So my associates and I are in this WITH you.
Interesting point, Gwen. I agree with your sentiment. The even bigger issue is that eBay has EVERY RIGHT to deny us from using their service. I know Paganism is on the rise and all, but we are NOT going to get any support from the general public with pushing a religious discrimination case.
ReplyDeleteEbay already ruined a ton of livelihoods without batting an eyelash when they disallowed digital delivery of information products. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT SELLERS. ONLY THEIR IMAGE. ONLY THEIR BRAND. Again, a handful of witches waving signs and sending emails is not going to tarnish their image. Most people will say "it's about damn time." Guaranteed.
They think they're going to be the next Amazon or something, and so they are moving away from their roots. They've proven to be perfectly comfortable with losing a sizable chunk of revenue from sellers that they don't want to deal with anymore. e.g. Digital delivery sellers
They are comfortable with sacrificing the classic curiosity factor of being able to find "anything on eBay". They aren't interested in continuing the "flea market" approach to online commerce, which is all they were ever good for in the first place. It is what it is.
I think we need to focus on LEAVING because that is what is going to happen. We need to establish a new, UNIFIED location that becomes the go-to place for metaphysical collectors. I see sellers popping up all over the place, ArtFire here, Bonanza over there, etc. Every man/woman for him/herself it seems.
This is a MISTAKE.
I really think we need to all focus on ONE LOCATION so that the relevant traffic can be concentrated in some fashion similar to the way it was on eBay. We need crowd control and direction, not dispersal. We need to SHIFT the community, not scatter it.
Can we please start talking about a unified movement to a new location? I've checked them all out and so far, I would suggest Bonanza. Of course there are "no sales" there now. We need to bring the crowd WITH US. Why would the few sellers who tried it previously expect any sales for meta when eBay was clearly the best option. We need to make a NEW BEST OPTION. Not 10 new bad options.
Does anyone agree with me or am I whistling in the wind on this??
I agree, sadly I do. I do think what they did was discrmantion, but no one excpet us and your clients will stand behind us. I have had several buyers follow me there and have made enough to cover my fee there for at least 6 months already. I came to my conclusion about this late last night, after talking to csr's yesterday, its pretty clear they seem to think we make them look bad as a site. I will just sell my jewelry as jewelry, nothing more, as I dont want to end up with stuff that I can't get rid of. I know they are leaving that up in the air, haunted jewelry, but we can't even get a straight answer as to what words or ok, and what is not. So, I am gonna play it safe, so I at least don't loose my all my invetory and risk getting it pulled by them. And will add some clothing or something to at the very least try to make up for some of the loss income. Everything else has been moved to artfire. I got emails yesterday that etsy would not allow our items. That does not surprise me, I do have them all saved and inported to bonanza, but you are right there are no sales. My buyers seem to be ok, so far using the artfire site, they use paypal, and there is a shopping cart, as far as I know they found it easy to use. By the way, I went to relist just now, and the box is gone the one that said the catagory will be gone? does anyone know why?
DeleteLilith, I was looking at artfire yesterday, and it looked like it was sort of etsy-esque, allowing only vintage and handcrafted pieces and supplies. Have I missed something?
DeleteI would say its nothing like etsy, It is more like a stand alone website. They unlike etsy, allow and have a commerical section, so resellers are allowed. There really are two sides to it, commerical and handmade. Handmade on artfire is if you add anything to any items, it is handmade. example bead with spell added. I emailed them before I opened to see if reading etc are allowed, and yes they are, as long as they are listen under design ,services, if you design a spell, and most of us do that, then it is listed in the right place. The rules on there are pretty simple, no pornography, anything else, is ok. They do not have a long prohibited list, digital downloads are fine, there was some tarot readers there before I opened. No prohibited words, as long as its not profane, its ok. I had a store there before, under the name salem, with no activy, mainly because I did not promote it, and only had about 10 things listed. I was to busy with ebay to pay any attention to it. This was over a year ago, I just did not have time to work with it.
DeleteI agree, we all need to go to one place together. We need to start promoting whatever that one place will be via all our Facebook pages on some kind of eye-catching magickal graphic that can be shared easily. I am already on Bonanza. I like it because it was easy to import all my eBay listings. I haven't checked out Artfire. I am also on eBid and opened a Shopify store.
DeleteJR, I agree that we should all be mobilizing TOGETHER in another location, and flooding our clients with information, offering sales, free shipping and/or promotions to get them to follow us (I'm currently on eCrater, and I just signed up at ebid.net). However, I also think it couldn't hurt to try to get Ebay to reconsider. I'm ready to send some emails and make some phone calls~if in the end they shut us down anyway, at least we will know we did everything we could to try and change their minds. I think using the religious discrimination argument is a good idea, too. Whether this idea works in our favor or not remains to be seen, but the whole Chick-fil-A debate did get some people to boycott their restaurant. Ebay isn't doing this for ideological reasons, so perhaps they will at least be somewhat concerned about bad press.
ReplyDeleteI can certainly see Gwen's point here. However, I think it will be difficult to change ebay's position on items that aren't shipped. They are mundane business people who see nothing but their bottom line~all they care about is seeing a tracking number. Perhaps when doing a reading, sellers could offer to send customers a nice sheet detailing the service that was performed? As long as you send something that would allow you to upload a tracking number, this "intangible" hurdle might be overcome (in the event they allow our category to continue at all, that is). Please don't think I'm trying to exclude you Gwen or others who offer readings and remote services, or suggest that your services are somehow less important that those that include a piece of jewelry or other item. I'm only trying to think of a way that we can get ebay to change their minds. I'm sure we're not going to be able to make them recognize the inherent benefits of such services, so perhaps altering how we offer our service into a “product” would do the trick.
Here's the draft of the email I'm planning to send ebay. Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated.
ReplyDeleteI’m writing to express my deep disappointment in eBay for deciding to discontinue the metaphysical category at the end of August. The Metaphysical community on ebay has been an active, thriving market for many years, and I’m shocked at the decision to shut it down.
Our category offers jewelry, supplies and services of a spiritual nature, items that often cannot be found easily elsewhere. Ebay has allowed us to come together and form a true marketplace for our services, and by eliminating us, you are in essence eliminating a group of people based solely on their alternate spiritual and religious beliefs. I feel this is religious discrimination at its most basic level, and I encourage you to change your mind about this policy.
Ebay claims that this policy has been enacted due to the ongoing problem of dispute resolution, and the difficulty in assessing buyer claims with “intangible” items. I believe this accusation to be false. The Metaphysical Category has an extremely high percentage of sellers with Top Rated Seller status. There are less negatives and neutrals in our category than in the regular jewelry category (and many others), and I certainly haven’t seen eBay shutting down all the Chinese jewelry listings, though they get negative after negative. I believe Ebay’s problem is wholly about “image,” and this again leads me to the conclusion that the Metaphysical category is being discriminated against.
I’m asking Ebay today to reconsider its position, and reinstate our category. We have a large body of repeat clients and we bring in solid revenue year after year. We have some of the best feedback on ebay~we must, offering “intangible items” as we do! If we didn’t offer excellent products and great customer service, we’d be out of business in a month! I’m sure that most of us would be more than happy to work with Ebay to come up with a list of unified standards for our category, such as at minimum a 14 day money back return policy for ALL metaphysical sellers, the shipping of some form of “tangible” item with every purchase so delivery can be easily verified, etc.
We metaphysical sellers are legitimate business people who have the right to offer our services and products on Ebay regardless of the branch of spiritualism or religion we follow or practice. It is unfair of your company to allow crosses, stars of David, feng shui items, etc, but to discriminate against our products simply because they do not fall in the category of “mainstream” religious items. I’m sure upon the realization that you will be guilty of egregious religious discrimination if you follow through with this decision, you will do the right thing and reconsider.
Peace,
Aurora Sundberg
Mystic_Oceans
Excellent letter, Aurora. It's eloquent, logical, and to-the-point.
DeleteI'm all for trying to change their "mind" as well, but I think we need to focus more logically on the big picture of the survival of our collective market and thus our individual businesses.
ReplyDeleteI'm not at all *against* protesting this new policy, but with only a couple of weeks until the 99.9% chance of a FATAL blow to our current business models, we need a practical, short-term solution and we need it now.
For all we know, the site we collectively decide to inundate with our services (and most importantly, direct our lists toward) may very well follow suit with eBay a couple of months from now and kick us out. There is no perfect solution available within this timeframe. We need to embrace that and focus on our unity, wherever we end up. The major players need to stick together to preserve the culture that we all depend upon.
As Aurora said, we need a flood of strong, enticing promotion directing customers toward a single new location from all the sellers we can bring together in this collective. No one wants to use these other sites because people hate change. So we're going to have to give them a good reason to come with us.
We have to spin this as a positive. All of the collectors buy from multiple sellers. We all know this to be a fact. I want each of them getting at least 4 or 5 emails from separate sellers proclaiming the metaphysical mass exodus from eBay and great migration to [new site], celebrated with an exciting grand opening sale. It's time to "wag the dog" here, people.
I love the idea of a Grand Opening in one location! I'm in, absolutely. I'm also planning to offer my customers a free pendant cast with the spell of their choice with any purchase at the new venue.
DeleteI signed up as a buyer at ebid.net. It has an "ebay look" about it, and they're running a promotion for $49.99 and that's it~for life (I presume that's what seller+lifetime means, anyway). No other fees. I didn't sign up as a seller yet, because I wanted to wait and see where everyone else was going. I saw someone else mention them here~I'm sorry I can't remember who. How do you like bonanza so far, JR? What are their fees?
I'm glad you like the Grand Opening idea. I'm planning on going so far as offering Buy One conjuration, Get One (of equal/lesser value) free for the entire month of September.
DeleteBonanza has a really nice site with some interesting features. No listing fees, but flat FVF of 3.5% (min. of 50 cents). BUT, there are also options for Pro packages that may hold features that most of us would like to have. The Gold program features things like mark-downs, special search promotion, email capturing, custom product hierarchies, etc. So it looks to be the most likely choice and it costs $24/mo. So that's a major factor when compared to eBid.net. I do like the site better though. You can import your feedback scores from eBay (the numbers only, no actual comments). They also have a feature called a "Rush" where it looks like you can join category-wide sales that are scheduled for a specific time. Interesting.
Those two seem to be the best possibilities, in my opinion. The $50 for life promo at eBid has me leaning more that way actually. We want to make sure everyone can hop on board willingly and the Pro plans at Bonanza have me a little concerned.
I'm also not too hopeful regarding ArtFire because, although Lilith's shop looks very lovely, it seems rather out of place amongst all the clothing and crafts. I have a bad feeling about whether we will remain welcome there for long at all, similar to Etsy's position. eCrater looks pretty crumby too...Free, but no style or flavor at all. Any other thoughts or suggestions from anyone?
I've decided to bite the bullet and sign up for ebid.net. $50 for life seems like a reasonable amount to give it a shot, anyway.
ReplyDeleteGlad to see I'm not the only one on Ebid.net. I truly think its our best backup option, and maybe even a positive secondary outlet if eBay doesn't ban all para listings.
DeleteThe site looks really nice and has an ebay feel to it, which might make our customers slightly more comfortable. :) Hopefully we can get more sellers to come with us, and have a good showing for a Grand Opening like JR suggested. I think it's a fabulous idea!
DeleteI e-mailed Griff about this and asked specifically about Voodoo Dolls, tangible items vs intangibles. He claimed you could list TANGIBLE items and describe INTANGIBLE benefits as long as something was shipped. Not good news for straight spells but spells with totems? Readings that are printed and mailed? Sounds alright. Sounds more like eBay has it in for non-mailable things than any specific spiritual leanings.
ReplyDeleteHere is the e-mail.
My question in short is will I be allowed to continue to offer Voodoo
dolls, candles, blessed cloths, and other items relating to my faith
and belief?
Yes. As long as the items are tangible objects, they can be listed on eBay.
You do have the collectibles sub-category of Wiccan and Paganism. Is
this where I should move my listings?
Possibly. If you believe that category works best for your tangible items.
Can my listings still explain
the intangible benefits of the items?
Yes. As long as the items are tangible, you are free to make whatever claims about them you chose.
Regards,
Griff
Jim Griffith
Seller Experience Team
"Free to make whatever claims about them you choose.[sic]" That's a laugh. So what are we supposed to use for title keywords when they've been saying words like "spirit" and "haunted" will be prohibited?
DeleteAll they really have to do to remedy this supposed big "intangible" issue that they're tearing our world apart over is require 2 simple things on metaphysical listings:
1) Ship a physical item (print-out of psychic reading, certificate of spell completion, etc. for those that don't work with vessels or spelled items)
2) State disclaimer that sale is for the physical item only and all other statements regarding the physical item are made for entertainment purposes only.
I mean, really, is that not reasonable for all involved?
Cripes.
This is great news, if it stands and sticks. Lets all hope and pray
DeleteJR~again, well said and very reasonable.
DeleteExactly Jason! It IS great news, if Griff knows what he's talking about. Lisa above had a facebook post from someone who said meta is going and none of the items would be allowed. Probably the most frustrating thing about all this is that ebay's staff has no more idea what's going on than we do.
I have to say I find this down right funny ! If I wear not about to scream! Every one of my spells I send a certificate, every one! I print a shipping label, upload tracking! But how do you list a spell, when there is NO spell catagory? How crazy is that? I called them the other day, they looked at my store, and my listings, that all have a tangible item, and I was told that they all had to be taken down, because there is no catagory.
DeleteI think Griff might have been more likely to have checked with the right Department before answering. He is one of the long time employees hired in the early days. I bet he has much stock too.
DeleteI would put more faith in his answer than that of a regular customer service rep because Griff works out of the corporate office--no reps do.
My one BIG problem though I have with his answer and the questions asked---Spells were not specifically mentioned. we already know many other types of items have 'intangible' energies that eBay has not 'banned'--as I touched on in my letter above. I would want an answer from him SPECIFICALLY addressing spells using that word. Spirits too.
DeleteThere will be no catagory for spells, so how would we list them? And they are on the prohibited list, as well as psychic readings, even if you sent a reading through the mail, how could you list them, if they are prohibited?
DeleteI do think he was referring to candles, dolls, beads,jewelry, if we can say anything they should be able to stay.
DeleteI agree, and the more written statements we get from them the better. My phone call to CS was useless, I couldn't understand half of what he was saying. I'm going to send emails to a bunch of CS WITH specific questions. That way it will be in writing.
ReplyDeleteWhat I gather from all of this is:
ReplyDelete1. There is a very slim chance of continuing on as we have. If Ebay was so willing to continue allowing the sale of "haunted" and "spell-bound" items as long as something tangible was shipped, why would they be ridding themselves of the metaphysical category? I'm with J.R. in the belief that they have already made up their mind, and a few emails and phone calls from people they view as a stain on their otherwise "stellar" business model are going to do little to sway them. Keep in mind, they've probably had numerous meetings discussing how to handle our reaction.
2. Our worst nightmare is that everyone scatters. This will cause the customer base to do the same, and in turn will weaken the market overall. That leaves us with drastically lower sales. Ever wonder why Walgreens and CVS always build across the street from each other? Lowes and Home Depot? Bars and clubs? It actually benefits you to have the customer base in a consolidated area. If we don't supply a one stop shop for our customers, we all lose. Ebay was perfect, but we can find another home.
3. Bonanza seems perfect. However, I see some metaphysical sellers there saying that they'll soon be moving their store to another site due to rules changes that are soon to take place there! We are just a bunch of homeless vagabonds it seems. Can anyone shed some light on Bonanza's policies?
Gwen, I hope you saw my reply to you up above.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Bonanza-my partner and I had two accounts for a year-mine was a Gold paid membership. We sold ONE item between us for 100.00. We sell many thousands of dollars a month on eBay.
After about a year Bonanza pulled all my partners listings asking him to re-do some and remove pictures from others. About two months later they did the same to me.
Neither of us bothered. WHY? No sales-it was a waste of time.
Bonanza wants every listing totally family friendly. The quote the rep who pulled mine sent by email was-"something you would not mind your 7 year old looking at". So no sex, desire, any thing of that nature.
Great points, everyone. Thank you for that insight regarding Bonanza's G-rated policies. Hands down, Bonanza is out of the equation for me then.
DeleteAll things considered, I think eBid.net is looking like the best overall option for us wayward vagabonds to reassemble.
I know Aurora and Jason are on-board with them already, but I would like to hear from others as well.
Hey, you, the silent one who's been reading this convo but hasn't contributed yet--yeah, YOU--what do you think? We need your input. We're all in this together, friends.
Hmmm...Bonanza may feel that way now, but money talks. If they are flooded with metaphysical sellers asking about their policies, they may change their mind. Like you said, there are little to no sales in that category as of now. So they have no motivation to allow any risque listings. However, come September 1, they may find it to be lucrative. The ability to quickly import ebay listings and feedback just makes Bonanza so perfect. The entire group of metaphysical listings from ebay could all be on Bonanza in a matter of days. This would allow us to all send our customers there.
ReplyDeleteMeta seller: Yes, I did see your reply. To be honest, I had no knowledge of the rule. I have spoken with Ebay rep before and even described what I do. They never seemed to have an issue with it.
Believe me, I hear ya. I love the system they have established at Bonanza. The design is very sleek and the easy feedback and listing import ability is a huge plus. But content acceptability concerns and the Pro membership pricing has me pretty torn.
DeleteI listed my first item on Ebid tonight, and it was very similar overall to ebay. The format will take a little getting used to of course, but overall it wasn't difficult to understand or work with. However, I discovered that the $49.99 seller + lifetime membership is for unlimited BASIC auctions, and these listings do not display a photo in the search results. To add a photo, you have to either pay for a featured auction ($1), or pay a 2% final value fee. Still considerably less than ebay's fees, but I wanted to make sure everyone knows there are final value fees involved if you want anyone to look at your listing.
DeleteOther than that, I like it. And you can import your feedback from ebay at ebid, too.
Yes-the rule has been in effect for years. Just not enforced unless someone is reported. A very popular seller told me about it a long time ago. Said she got in trouble with eBay over it so she switched to objects with spells years ago.
ReplyDeleteI just had an idea I want to present everyone. My idea is to create a central site where we can all be listed with links to all our stores IF we are pushed off eBay.
A blog site like blogger is indexed very high in google-they own blogspot/blogger. So we create a site with links to all our stores/sites--add articles submitted by each of us, free spells of the day and so forth. Images with proper tagging too.
I have a blog I never post on any more and I get many hits. I have over 30,000 and I have not posted content in 2 years or optimized for SEO. So a blog type set up can be good. They can even be tabbed with individual pages. This would not be a Mega-Meta-Mall but it would drive traffic to all of us, especially if we all recommended it to our customers.
This is an idea for the future.
This is another project I would love to tackle with whoever else is interested.
Delete1. A central hub for all store private listings to be listed.
2. The creation of the main central metaphysical marketplace.
I would also like to maybe create a (board) or (group) of sellers, maybe voted in by other sellers, that can take court once a month or two times a month and come up with various solutions, create new projects, tackle problems before they arise?
Just throwing that out...
Thanks again.
Methias Chinoa (Third Eye Communications ~ Mrs. Gula)
They closed psychic readings, spells, and tarot readings. They did not close Astrology. So you can combined psychic readings, tarot readings, and spells with astrology readings. I do not believe they will close astrology, ever.
ReplyDeleteI've had these astrology readings done.
Whatever happens, I just want everyone to realize how we have come together and how many people we have reached. Just imagine if it was all in unity to build traffic to our new united marketplace. For those that say we cannot come together and build a mega-meta marketplace in the coming year, we shall see.
ReplyDeleteFor those that are onboard and ready to take this side challenge with ultra upside, I look forward to working with you all my friends. This eBay problem has really brought us together and I am more than ever proud of the metaphyscial community and confident of our united future.
*bows*
Namaste
Methias Chinoa (Third Eye Communications ~ Mrs. Gula)
I agree completely. This is the first time I have spoken with nearly all of you. I truly believe we can use this event as a springboard to launch an actual, unified community. No longer just cliques and rivals, but instead a Guild of like-minded professionals sharing mutual respect and cooperation toward the cultivation of a strong, unified market.
DeleteMethias, I'm with you in regards to both of the projects you listed above. I emailed you 2 days ago but you didn't reply; did you receive it?
Namaste, friend.
I am so sorry my friend. I have received it, and I received many others as well. I have not responded until I am sure of what we are doing and how many are in play, and I am so busy trying to finish our personal site by the end of this month and keep our current listings up to date that as you can imagine I am kinda carrying way to much.
DeleteWhen the smoke clears I will reply to you and all that sent me the messages.
Thank You.
Not a problem. I just wanted to be sure you had received it, added me to your list, etc. Thank you for the confirmation.
DeleteI certainly understand the strain of the moment. Talk to you soon, friend.
I just received the first reply from the 250 or so emails I've sent to ebay from Verna's master list:
ReplyDeleteHello Aurora Sundberg,
Thank you for contacting eBay’s Executive staff. On behalf of eBay’s Executive Office I will be addressing your concerns with the removal of the Metaphysical category on eBay.
First, I would like to thank you for contacting us and providing feedback regarding the removal of this category. We are always looking for ways to improve eBay and reports like this help us identify processes that need improvement.
As you have heard, beginning in September 2012 we will be discontinuing the following Metaphysical categories:
o Everything Else: Metaphysical: Psychic, Paranormal > Readings
o Ever Everything Else: Metaphysical: Psychic, Paranormal > Spells, Potions
o Everything Else: Metaphysical: Tarot Readings
Please understand that this change will not impact the ability to list crystals, jewelry, candles, or the majority of Metaphysical supplies that are currently listed on the eBay website. The change is focused at removing items from the site that have caused an increase in bad buying experiences, that are difficult to confirm if a Resolution Center case is filed, or that may otherwise negatively impact the eBay website as a whole.
I understand that you may disagree with this change and I appreciate the alternate options you have provided. At this time, however, our decision to remove these categories remains. We respect your desire to offer services of a spiritual nature but ask that you refrain from listing these items on eBay. They are too difficult to manage when disputes arise and, unfortunately, we have found that some individuals misuse the trust buyer’s have for these types of services. If you have additional suggestions regarding ways to improve and maintain these categories, please let us know. We are always open to suggestions. Suggestions may be sent directly to our feedback teams by clicking “Tell us what you think” at the bottom of the eBay home page.
Thank you again for contacting eBay’s Executive Office.
Regards,
Angela B.
eBay's Office of the President
So it sounds pretty definitive that physical items cannot even be described as having any additional properties.
DeleteThat's how I took it, too.
ReplyDeleteSo supplies only.
ReplyDeleteAnd jewelry that isn't spelled, or spirit bound. I'm currently going through Paypal and making an email list of everyone who's ever bought from me. I encourage everyone to do the same so we can send all our buyers to one centralized location once we decide where (eBid.net is my vote). I can't stress enough how important I think it is for all of us to move to a new venue together.
DeleteI think the answer is still ambiguous. No answer as to whether an item with a spell is allowed. The letter writer makes reference to 'services of a spiritual nature' NOT items of a spiritual nature being banned.
ReplyDeleteReading over the letter sent, I can see where the VP who answered may have interpreted this solely as a plea to keep the spell and reading categories.
Regardless--I think we need to move ahead with our plans to MASS EMAIL and take this heavily to the eBay social media. Twitter and Facebook. Ebay needs to be bombarded.
So my push is on to finish up the email list of eBay dept. heads.
I ask that everyone write up a personal letter for them to send out and we will continue to create variations of letter 'templates' to be mass emailed. Once we start I think we need to continue daily.
But again--we need HUNDREDS of people doing this.
I'm going to respond to Angela's message and ask her to clarify specifically, though I read it to mean all spirit and spell cast items. I'll keep you posted.
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ReplyDeleteThis blog is becoming so large I dont want anything lost in the shuffle so I will add this on every page. When the eBay smoke clears and we have all done what we each decided to do to protect ourselves we are planning on forming a meta site in the forms of eBay for all of us to join and drive traffic to. For everyone that emailed me already I have received them and will introduce everyone in some type of format in the coming future. For the rest that still want in please email me here: thirdeyemaster1@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteIf you still want more info look through the posts on what we are proposing.
Good Luck my friends.
Methias Chinoa - Thirdeyecommunications ~ Mrs. Gula
IMPORTANT!
ReplyDeleteI have gotten so MANY emails from sellers who have been contacted saying they talked to eBay and their listings are allowed and it's business as usual. PLEASE do not put your business in the hands of a CS rep! What they tell you ultimately means nothing if they don't have the right info-words are just words. Based on the many conflicting reports NOTHING is certain yet. STOP BEING OSTRICHES WITH YOUR HEADS IN THE SAND! If eBay allows spell cast or spirit bound jewelry it will be wonderful but it's looking more and more like it IS out. Come the end of the first week of September you could get so many listings pulled and the resulting policy violations your accounts could be suspended for good. Maybe THIS IS eBay's plan?
I am very confused. I have had a number of my items removed in the past few days, they were not spells or readings they were spirited items. I do not know what to list at this time or if I can list anything that I offer. And yet I still see thousands of listings that offer only spells and items similar to mine that are still up. I see the last post on this was Aug 16 so has everyone just given up?
ReplyDeleteElla Marino